Growing up in my East Yorkshire village, I was entirely unaware of Judaism and no Jews lived in that village. However, at eleven that changed somewhat when I passed the eleven plus exam and gained a scholarship to the poshest school in Hull.
Every morning, the posh school had an assembly in which there were Christian prayers and hymns. That section would be followed by general school notices.
Every morning, I had to ride thirteen miles into Hull on a country bus and because of this I was never in the school hall at the start of the assembly so I had to wait outside with around twenty others boys who missed the first part of the assembly because they were Jewish. When the religious part finished, we would troop into the back of the hall to listen to the notices. I think this is the reason that several of my classmates tried to tease me - calling me a "yid" - a term of abuse I had never heard before. Fortunately, the teasing did not last long and it did not cause me any remembered trauma at all.
Even at the age of eleven, I had become a non-believer so though I was christened within The Church of England, in truth I had already ditched all that hocus pocus. Effectively, I was already an "atheist" though that was another word that I had previously never heard.
Please excuse my ignorance but in this modern age I wonder why more Jews don't also turn their backs on religion and become non-believers? How can it be that someone who is a native born citizen of Great Britain or The Netherlands or Canada may self-define more eagerly through their religious heritage than through their nationality? I just don't get it.
Yesterday, there was a terrible event in the Lancashire city of Manchester. A dangerous young man of Syrian origin visited a synagogue with the intention of causing death and terror. Tragically, two Jewish men were killed and he caused injury to others before he himself was shot dead by the police.
In the news coverage that followed, I heard one Jewish woman declaring that she would now have to emigrate from this country where she was born and raised and I thought - why? This is your country as much as it is mine - why would you consider leaving it because of one murderous nutcase? So yeah - I don't really "get" several aspects of Jewishness at all. Much of it remains a mystery to me.
Am I allowed to say that in the field of arts and music, two Jewish songwriters have meant the world to me - Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen. Cohen's Jewishness was apparent in many of his songs but with Bob Dylan it was always less easily detected. However, here he is in one of his less well-known numbers, singing quite bitterly in defence of the state of Israel in "Neighbourhood Bully". I should warn you that it is four minutes and eleven seconds long...
I do hope your post creates some useful discussion.
ReplyDeleteI am similar to you - atheist for as long as I can remember but was never “entered” into any faith by my parents.
I have had more contact with the Jewish faith than you. - I lived opposite a large synagogue for several years and there was another just up the road. We lived well within the city’s eruv (look it up). It was interesting that there road was no parking in both sides but no one got tickets during the high holidays.
I worked with many secular Jews and tried to understand how one can be atheist but still Jewish - having said that I had a discussion with a Lebanese friend recently who is an atheist but says that he would call himself Christian.
For me, Intend to tend perplexed by all things religious..as much as I try to understand, I don’t - I am not wired that way.
Of the two songwriters you mention, there is no competition for me…Mr Cohen everyday. I was fortunate enough to see him in a relatively small venue. if you like Philip Glass check out Book of Longing.
Sorry, a rather long reply.
Thank you for this reply Traveller. It is a very tricky subject to broach. Regarding the two famous songsmiths, it is interesting that Leonard Cohen always stuck with his original Jewish birth name but Bob Dylan ditched his just as many other Jews did before him.
DeleteAn interesting read, in case you missed
ReplyDeletehttps://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/oct/03/attack-antisemitism-synagogue-jewish-manchester-turning-point
Feel free not to post
Okay. Thanks. I am off to look at that now.
DeleteI have just read Jonathan Freedland's measured article and found it pretty instructive so once again thanks for that link Traveller.
DeleteI think this may be a situation where unless you truly are a student of history and/or a person born Jewish, it may be almost impossible to understand the ins and outs. A Jewish identity certainly seems to be a strong, lifelong thing.
ReplyDeleteI hope that someone can come and help us understand.
DeleteBTW YP kudos for writing about this.
As an aside, my sister-in-law for a time taught English at a Jewish secondary school in Manchester. She was a practicing Christian, maybe that helped her understand the religious aspects of the school and community. I have worked in Gateshead, which has quite a large Jewish community, and was never aware of any animosity between that community and the other locals.
ReplyDeleteIt's such a multi-faceted topic that it is hard to get your head around it - the language, the loyalties, the different types of Jewishness. Thank you for your contribution Will.
DeleteI am married to someone who is Jewish, but is not religious. But the Jewish cultural identity is strong. He lights candles on Yom Kippur and he lights candles on the anniversaries of his deceased families deaths. We also have a menorah where he lights the candles. He has been to Israel a couple of times when he was much younger. When his father died and I went to the funeral, I witnessed some very different customs than what I am used to. I remember his brother sitting on a wooden box after the service at his house, and I remember all the mirrors being covered. I really don't remember the reasons why these things happened though. As Mrs. Moon states, I think it is a lifelong thing.
ReplyDeleteArguably, better knowledge of Judaism and its adherents would help to break down some barriers and dispel some of the fear and suspicion.
DeleteI too have little experience with members of the Jewish community, I'm not really aware of one in South Yorkshire (although that could be because I move in different circles). Everyone want to belong so some may join together with people of similar interests other who share a faith or cultural background. You can of course belong to multiple communities and feel a connection with a shared culture or heritage.
ReplyDeleteI was around when the state of Israel was formed after the second world war. there was much debate using religion and politics. At that time there were serious problems. I cannot understand the Jewish religion and the and it's attachment to the state of Israel.
ReplyDeleteI think there are quite a few "secular" Jewish people who are not particularly religious. But Judaism is more than just a religion -- it's also a historically persecuted culture, and I can see why many Jewish people value and defend Israel as a theoretical haven from that persecution. That doesn't mean Israel is above criticism, however.
ReplyDeleteI suspect that woman who spoke about moving will walk back those words, born from the pain of the moment. It seems to me -- admittedly, not Jewish -- that Britain is as safe or safer for Jewish people than any other country.
I think the Jewish faith is very strong so none would care to turn their back on it and declare themselves non believers. I am not religious myself, but I understand faith and don't see why anyone of any religion should have to turn their backs on it to avoid harrassment. The big question in my mind is WHY do people attack Jews? What is wrong with being Jewish? It's a religion like any other and no one should be attacking anyone because they belong to this or that faith. I worked with a Jewish woman years ago in the shoe factory and my kids got to know her kids and everyone got on well. They are just people.
ReplyDeleteAs commentators say it is too difficult to comprehend. Not all of us have a belief system tucked away in our souls, though I have questioned it many times. My story of adoption by a Jewish person. Who, would not admit to it, and I was schooled through the Catholic faith. But my grandfather's experience in Europe through the war which made him come back to this country. For most of my life I thought I was Jewish, DNA proved otherwise, but I felt no need for the faith. Except perhaps at 21 years old I thought of joining a Kibbutz, the self sufficiency bit of me poking through. Thank god I didn't as I watch what is happening in both Palestine and Israel.
ReplyDeleteMy daughter came home last night, the RSPCA shop she is a manager is to be closed over the weekend in case of trouble' There is a tinder box out there, 99% of the people in Manchester are not the thugs we see on the television but ordinary people angry at the government in not addressing the question of looking out for the people of Palestine. It was a sad day at the synagogue with the killing and shooting especially as we are coming up to the anniversary of the 7th October.
Don't need to publish this but I think you need some support Neil....
There weren't Jews around me as I was raised but I have worked with many and we had Jewish neighbours on either side of us for a few years. Still, I know little more than you, except I hear about the Jewish race, which would be a general term for people with a Jewish background. I look forward to further replies.
ReplyDeleteMy 92 year old uncle has told me that our family, on my maternal great grandmother's side, is descended from Sephardic Jews, who fled from Spain/Portugal many years ago. I don't know how true that may be but there are no remnants of that faith carried down through the generations in our family.
ReplyDeleteI suspect that there may be many families in the UK who could possibly trace their history back to similar origins.
I'd say it's all deeply rooted in history and inherited traditions even more than in “faith” – and that the bigger question is why some still persecute others because of their origin (which is really something that none of us have chosen ourselves). I'd also say that a Christian's relationship with the “Holy Land” is totally different because the Christian tradition from start was to spread their faith to the whole world. (Jesus told his disciples to “go and make disciples of all nations” Matthew 28:19) Jewish history on the other hand goes back to nomad times long before they had a country of their own to begin with. I think a bigger question is why others are still persecuting Jews living elsewhere than in Israel. Considering the history of how the Jews were persecuted under the Nazi regime in Germany back in the 1930s/40s, I'm not surprised at all if a single terrorist attack anywhere in modern times still causes panic among people of Jewish heritage, whether they're very religious or not.
ReplyDeleteI think my own first awareness of "different" religious beliefs/traditions was when I was about 10 or 11 years old. We got a new boy in my class in school, who was Jewish (born somewhere in Eastern Europe). Back in those days we were all still going to school half days on Saturdays here in Sweden. We were also still taught “Christianity” rather than “Religion”, and each morning started with singing a psalm, and prayers were said before going to lunch. But unlike the rest of us, this new Jewish boy was excused from attending school on Saturdays (the Jewish Sabbath). And our teacher took some time to explain the difference in traditions to us. I suppose it probably made us a bit jealous that he got more “time off” than the rest of us – but as far as I can remember, we came to just accept it as a fact. (Or at least I did.) In 1968, the same year I started “secondary school” (at age 13), no school on Saturdays were introduced nation wide, so then that wasn't an issue any more. And Christianity was replaced by Religion on the curriculum, aiming to give us all a bit more insight into different traditions. (Not trying to make out that this solved all problems, though!!) (For my own part, I do identify myself as Christian. I had a brief period of regarding myself as atheist in my early teens, but then gave that up!)
I've worked with many Jewish people, especially in Leeds, and lodged with a Jewish family for a short time, and saw only a strong sense of identity. My wife's family was Jewish 2 generations back. They changed their name and made out they were Welsh, because of the awful abuse they had to endure. Before 1900 they were prominently successful, and there were things written in the national press describing them by name in terms that would be illegal now - words like "filthy" were typical. I can understand the sense of persecution. However, the family were not all good. Their wealth initially came from running the most successful brothel in 1800-1820 London.
ReplyDeleteOK, Mr. Pudding, you being born and bred in Yorkshire is a major part of your identity, right? And you want to pass your deep love and sense of Yorkshire community to your grandchildren, right? Well, being born Jewish takes the same hold -- it's about being the inheritor of a rich history, culture, and values that have survived for five thousand years. (BTW, Happy New Year y'all -- it's year 5786 on the Jewish calendar.)
ReplyDeleteBeing Jewish is so distinct that it can even be detected in DNA, which isn't true for Yorkshire genes (all you can get from "Yorkshire" DNA is a higher than average presence of Anglo-Saxon ancestry, which doesn't exactly pinpoint Yorkshire, yet you can't deny that Yorkshireness exists). Even if one is a non-practicing Jew, one's Jewishness is in one's blood (literally). And believe me, the world will not let you forget that you are a Jew; not since the War of the Roses have Yorkshiremen had to be fearful of being killed for being Yorkshiremen, but that's an everyday reality for Jews, everywhere, even in Israel.
I am not a Jew, but I am Jewish: my mother converted when I was 10 and married into a wonderful Jewish family, I converted when I was 30; I lived in Israel for a year in the 1980s and I've had two marriages to two good Jewish men. I do not support Israel's war on Gaza, but people my mother's age will always defend Israel against the world.
I have never given much thought to whether people are Jewish or not. In terms of friendship you either like a person and accept them as they are, or you don't - I know this is over-simplifying after the appalling events this week. One of my group of friends was Christian and married to a Jew, but they rarely spoke of their differing religions. It certainly didn't raise any issues with us.
ReplyDeleteHowever religion has always been a good excuse to wage war, invade other territories and commit murder. Sadly we tend to forget that some religions encourage fanaticism.
Like you YP, I have long since ceased to follow any religion.
My paternal German grandmother’s family were Jewish, although she converted to Christianity in the mid 1930s (no guesses why) and raised my father as Christian. It still resulted in them having to escape from Germany in 1939. In turn I was raised as a Christian. As an adult I took my faith on a different path, as I saw flaws in the organised church and people who purport to be Christian, whereas the are anything but in their behaviour. My best friend at school was strictly Jewish, leaving lessons soon after lunchtime on a Friday to be home before dark and the beginning of Shabbat. I learned a lot about Judaism from her and remember her in tears when the 6-day war started in 1967. It's a religion that has a lot of emphasis on tradition.
ReplyDeleteWhat you have to know is that Jewish people have been persecuted through the centuries all over the world. The most recent being the pograms that made them flee from one country to another across Europe until they faced the ultimate genocide in Germany and Poland in the 1940s. Even in England as early as the 12th century they were marginalised and in 1290, King Edward I issued an expulsion decree, forcing all Jews to leave England. Even Shakespeare depicted them in his plays as conniving money-oriented sharks. The feeling of being hated and side-lined has become part of their psyche. Strength comes in numbers, so I suppose this drove them on to stick to their faith like a comfort blanket and to have a country they could call home at last such as Israel after centuries of being kicked out of places. I am certain most Jews and even Israelis themselves would not agree with Israel’s actions in Gaza, any more than you would agree with some our politicians’ actions. However, I can imagine that if a member of my family had been taken hostage by Hamas on 7 October, I would fight tooth and nail to get that family member back home safely, as would you. My view is that Jewish people have tried to integrate into any society they live in, whereas Muslims are more insular and prefer their religion to dictate what everybody else should do. We are all individual and some choose their faith to wrap around them for comfort. I have no objection to anyone’s faith, be it Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism or whatever, as long as I am not forced to go along with it too. The bottom line is that we should all respect one another’s faiths and be kind to one another.
My son-in-law is Jewish, and although not at all religious, he does observe Jewish festivals. Much of his family was murdered - it was sheer fluke that his grandfather escaped. He knows what it feels like to be hounded for being Jewish, when, as a child, he and his brother were chased as they left shul.
ReplyDeleteWhich places of worship in UK, other than synagogues, are there that have security guards outside them to protect the congregation?