In France, the prohibition on Muslim women from wearing any form of religious headgear extends far beyond the Olympic and Paralympic Games. Bans on hijabs are in place in several sports including football, basketball and volleyball, at both professional and amateur levels.
Around 10% of French citizens describe themselves as "Muslim" which is around 5.7 million people. As with Muslims in Great Britain, there appears to have been a fashion trend in France whereby an increasing number of men and women seek to opt for the kind of conservative clothing that is widespread in Islamic states.
As I have indicated in this blog before, I actively scorn all types of religion so I think I am in a good position to point out that for centuries, French nuns have worn wimples that are similar to hijabs in that they partly conceal the wearer's vanity and impose a certain god-fearing modesty.
In my way of thinking, if the authorities choose to ban the hijab then they should also ban the wimple. It is a symbol of the Catholic faith just as the hijab and the abaya are symbols of Islam. As I see it, it is utterly hypocritical to ban one but not the other.
I never thought of it like that and you are spot on, sir!
ReplyDeleteI like to be called sir, sir!
DeleteAgree, France ought to get with the times.
ReplyDeleteIf you are going to have such rules, they should be consistent.
DeleteIt is absolutely hypocritical, but what's a little hypocrasty.
ReplyDeleteA little hypocrasty is a baby hippo.
DeleteIt's a wee bit more complicated and applies mostly to secular areas - ie. France, which has enforced a strict ban on religious signs in state schools since 19th-century laws removed any traditional Catholic influence from public education, has struggled to update guidelines to deal with a growing Muslim minority.
ReplyDeleten 2004, a law banned the wearing of ostensibly religious symbols in schools. This included the Islamic headscarf, Jewish kippas, Sikh turbans and large Christian crosses. - this also applies to those working in government office.
France has a concept called "laïcité" or secularism, which promotes the separation of religion and state in public institutions. However, it's important to note that wearing a hijab, which covers the head and neck but leaves the face uncovered, is generally accepted and allowed in public spaces, including as a tourist.
The secular rules apply again when it comes to the Olympics as you are representing your country.
There is also a story - available here: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/20/french-nun-misses-out-on-retirement-home-place-over-veil-ban
where a nun who had applied to a counsel run retirement home was told that she could not wear her religious habit or headscarf so they do apply it to nuns.
These rules do not apply if you are in a private car, home or religious venue.
Thanks for the clarifications Margie.
DeleteInteresting! Thanks so much for the info, Margie!
DeleteGreat info and very helpful in the discussion, Margie - thank you.
DeleteWhen you say religious garb is banned, I would have assumed it included wimples.
ReplyDeleteDo we know the actual wording of the ban? Do we know if any nuns actually wear wimples? I haven't seen one here for probably 40years. Do we know how consistent the enforcement is?
It seems so blindingly inconsistent to me that I wonder if there's something we don't understand
You ask several questions but I don't know the answers Kylie.
DeleteHow about if they just don't ban any of it and let people live their lives (and wear the clothes and hairstyles) they choose? Especially if it's not causing anyone any harm (which I can't see hijabs or wimples or dreadlocks doing) The world is full of hypocrites.
ReplyDeleteI agree with you and why is the focus upon women?
DeleteI was going to say the same as Kelly. Just leave people be, as long as they don‘t do any harm. One person‘s freedom ends where the next person‘s freedom begins, of course.
DeleteIt does help with keeping hair off the face and out of the eyes though, and there's no fussing about what to wear each day. On the other hand, if they ban one, they need to ban all. No exceptions. Unless Nun's clothing is seen as a uniform, but then a hijab would have to also be classed as a uniform, similar to what school children must wear.
ReplyDeleteDo you wear a hijab yourself Elsie? Give the pure life you have led, I suspect you might have opted for the wimple.
DeleteGood point YP although it is many yyears since I have seen a nun dressed in the old nun's garb.
ReplyDeleteDid you ever think of becoming a nun yourself Helen? Or should I say - Sister Helen?
DeleteI would have to agree with you.
ReplyDeleteGiven your cursing, I doubt they would allow you to become a nun Sister PIxie.
DeleteI'm guessing there are swearing nuns. I had a patient tell me once that I looked like a nun. Wasn't sure how to take that:)
DeleteI agree with Bob. And you, cur! Oops, I meant "sir".
ReplyDeleteYou are a funny guy Bruise.
DeleteNot so long ago since Catholic women used to don a head scarf when entering Church for mass either.
ReplyDeleteI remember seeing that in Ireland. More relaxed there now but still sexism is embroidered into just about every religion.
DeleteYou may have a point there but why are we so judgmental I wonder? People exist in all sorts of ways but what is needed is the change of outlook individually. I would not criticise either the wimple or hijabs. Changing ones mind is a funny business, Andrew my daughter's partner said he was seriously thinking of getting a skirt. I was somewhat shocked then he pointed out how many men in the world do in actual fact wear long skirts, so I had to go figure.
ReplyDeleteI have heard that men wear skirts in Scotland. Men wearing skirts in Todmorden may not go down too well.
DeleteTo be honest, in real life I don't see that that ban is applied - at least not round here. I still see plenty of ladies wearing the hijab and nobody bats and eyelid at it. On the other hand, to have a man stand on stage behind a young child at the opening ceremony with his bollocks sticking out from his shorts is "ok"??? It's the guy in black to the left of the screen and he knew exactly what he was doing. He is the partner of the organizer of the opening ceremony!
ReplyDeleteWell, I do not know what you are referring to Treaders! That image is news to me. I will have to research the incident. BTW there are 53,000 nuns in France even though numbers continue to decline.
DeleteIt HAS been talked about on both French media (not MSM of course) and I think it was Talk TV UK also. They took the screen shot and I can send it to you if you want.
DeleteOr you can find it at about minute 7.23 on this link:
Deletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UJo6wE8SARY&t=440s
Thanks Treaders! That woman in the link is very obnoxious and her intelligence is severely lacking. It is amazing that she has any airtime at all. Vile.
DeleteThat makes sense YP.
ReplyDeleteJust because the nuns were there first should not be a valid argument for different treatment.
DeleteI think what you write makes sense. When I think to some of the major calamities that humans have done to other humans, often times it was in the name of religion.
ReplyDeleteI notice that The Orange Turnip has at times pretended that he is a god-fearing servant of The Lord - just to try to win more votes.
DeleteThe Orange Turnip is an absolutely perfect way to refer to the felon. I once saw an interview that he was given and he was talking about his love of the Bible. The interviewer asked him what his favorite passage was, and he replied, "That's a deeply personal question and I'd like to keep that private". (or something like that) We both know good and well he knows nothing about the bible. Nothing.
DeleteA head scarf is fine with me, but face covers are not. We need to see faces to communicate. Do any nuns, of the few remaining, wear wimples now? I dislike overt religious symbols.
ReplyDeleteYes. In recent times I have indeed see nuns wearing their wimples. There are 53,000 nuns in France and on the edge of Sheffield there is a Carmelite nunnery.
DeleteSir Neil, has a nice ring to it. Treat them all the same, anything else is prejudice.
ReplyDeleteLord David of Michigan also has a nice ring to it. Or even Prince David.
DeleteThere are more important things to worry about than hijabs or wimples.
ReplyDeleteYup - like what we are having for dinner tonight!
DeleteDo nuns still wear wimples? I thought they were a thing of the past. But I agree the rule ought to apply across all religions. How do they treat Buddhist robes, for example?
ReplyDeleteThere are more than a thousand Catholic convents and nunneries in Great Britain and over 50,000 nuns in France. I may be wrong but I simply assumed that they all wear nuns' clothes.
Delete