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| Tideswell Church © Copyright Andrew Hill - geograph.co.uk 2012 |
Just over fifty years ago I informed the choirmaster and the vicar at my village church that I was resigning as a choirboy. No more chilly Sunday mornings in my cassock, surplus and ruff singing to a dwindling congregation. No more listening to endlessly dull sermons or prayers and Bible readings that droned on and on. Besides I had stopped believing in "God" years before - that's if I ever really believed in "Him".
And you know, since my resignation I had never attended one regular Sunday church service until last weekend when I found myself standing in the pews of The Cathedral of the Peak - St John the Baptist Church in Tideswell. - at 9.30 am.
Not much had changed in fifty years. The same droning prayers, readings and sermon. It all seemed so hollow, desperate even - still clinging to the ludicrous notion of an afterlife - as if the trials and tribulations of earthly life merely foreshadow the glorious and everlasting life to come.
At one point we were invited to shake hands with other churchgoers. That would have never happened fifty years ago. They grinned at me and said "Peace be with you!"as I replied, "Hello!". It was quite irksome.
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| Inside Tideswell Church |
When the hocus pocus of communion was being performed at the altar, I whispered to my daughter, "It's such a substantial building but this service is so insubstantial". Indeed Tideswell Church is a wonderful building - so much craftsmanship, so much history. It soars gloriously above the large Peak District village. It speaks of christenings, funerals and weddings going back to the fourteenth century. You feel that history - it's almost tangible.
In order to qualify to be married there, Frances and Stew have to attend six services in six calendar months. Consequently, they were up from London again at the weekend. It is likely that the next time I am in The Cathedral of The Peak I shall, God willing (!), be walking her proudly down the aisle - a year from now.
After our attendance, we called in at The Yonderman Cafe for breakfast - eggs, bacon, oatcakes, black pudding, sausages, beans, tomatoes, toast and mugs of tea. It's a popular place and with the rest of the congregation we paid homage to the mysterious Yonderman before driving back to Sheffield.
Another controversial subject YP.
ReplyDeleteI love the atmosphere in churches and the peace that you get as soon as you enter. I love the stained glass and even the smell but that's as far as it gets.
I do think that if you believe it must be a lovely thing to think that there is someone there to help you and good luck to those people, but I as you will know I am no at all religious and do not need a religious crutch to get me through life. I have discovered that really one can only rely on ones self. That said, I will probably need help at some time and hope my kids come up trumps. lol
Briony
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Trump's children have certainly come up Trumps haven't they? Like you I am a little envious of true believers - the idea that there is someone there to lean on. But for me it is an impossible idea. I could not pretend.
DeleteI'm with both you and ccc. I suppose it would be a fine thing to believe in a supernatural benevolent being. As it is, I can't even fathom why anyone would want to live forever which makes the whole idea of the crucifixion and resurrection a bit useless. What nipped the whole thing in the bud for me was actually reading the Bible when I was probably about twelve. Even at that young age I realized that if this was the word of a god, it was a severely confused god.
ReplyDeleteOf course the very writing of The Bible deserves close scrutiny. Was it "the word of God" or the word of medieval monks and others with vested interests in propagating the mythology? And how was it changed as the centuries passed by?
DeleteHi Ms. Moon. I think I started to question things when I asked the RE teacher how come it said to 'turn the other cheek' and somewhere else it says 'An eye for an eye'
DeleteHe didn't have the answer and I think that was the beginning of the end for me.
YP, you may be gratified (or couldn't care less) that Tideswell is one included in Simon Jenkins'"England's Thousand Best Churches" (revised version 2000). Commended largely on account of "the nearer we approach, the smaller seems the town and the larger the church". It commands two stars out of five, and I quote "One and two stars indicate churches worth visiting for just a few features, and these are bound to be rather arbitrary". In Tideswell's case: "the church's medieval and modern wood carvings". And, "Nave, crossing,transepts and chancel are the 14th century at its most ambitious, flirting with Continental flamboyance before settling back into English Perpendicular". Only a restaurant review could be written will equal flourish.
ReplyDeleteI love going into churches. I love walking around the cemeteries and graveyards surrounding them even more.
U
I love old churches and have visited hundreds of them. To me they speak eloquently of craftsmanship, community and history and of the spiritual hunger so many people long to satisfy. Thank you for doing that little bit of research on Tideswell Church. Much appreciated.
DeleteThat "greeting" period, when everyone shakes hands, always makes me wince. (When I go to church that is, which is extremely infrequently.) I feel the same way you do about the services. I wonder what the church could do to make itself more relevant? Maybe it's time to adopt a more intellectual, reasonable, challenging frame of mind, discussing the difficulties of living humanely and compassionately in the modern world, while letting go of some of that afterlife hocus-pocus? Then again, I suspect church people would say the hocus-pocus is integral to the message.
ReplyDeleteI cannot see how the church can make itself more relevant when there is no God and the stories contained in The Bible are of dubious relevance. People can live good and worthwhile lives without reference to religion.
DeleteI'm sorry that it wasn't a good experience for you but I have the opposite feeling after attending Sunday service. I became a regular church goer again about a year ago after 40 years of very sporadic attendance and I have to say that I have been pleasantly surprised in many ways. I have found new friends, become more engaged with a larger community, been able to volunteer for many causes that directly affect my community (i.e. sponsorship of a Syrian Refugee family, feeding the city's homeless, teaching English to newcomers and fundraising for other endeavours. I have also found a congregation that is diverse in many ways, age, ethnic background, financial status and yes, even sexual orientation.
ReplyDeleteI think the sermon could be blamed more on the minister than anything else - we have two and you'd better be paying attention because some of them are real eye openers. And I find the greeting to be a lovely way to speak with both old friends & new and to welcome the many visitors that we get (we are smack in the middle of the entertainment district and get many tourists) it is always sincere, not perfunctory. I think it's what you put into it rather than what you take from it that might make the difference in how someone feels about "the church".
Thank you for this well-considered response Margie. It is clear that being a member of your church community has enriched your life. It is so good to hear that your church is involved in several worthwhile ventures that really help people.
DeleteKnowing even a little about the history of religions of all kinds has made me very cynical, even beyond the "not believing" part. I do consider myself spiritual, with nature and the unseen forces of the universe as my god, so to speak. I can also agree with the central tenet of all religions to love one another and I do miss the sense of community I had in my childhood church and the support it provided. Many of my good childhood memories come from activities within the church, such as variety concerts, being given responsibility for the very little children in Sunday School, and being around the older people in the congregation who were for the most part interesting, intelligent and good role models. But that was a small community, with a disproportionately high number of farmers and teachers, so I think I was luckier than some village dwellers. I always have mixed feelings about grand churches. Yes, they are lovely to look at, but that beauty and wealth was provided from the labour of the little people, who tithed when they could not afford to, at the command of church leaders. Small, unpretentious churches are more to my liking, if I am in the mood to visit a church.
ReplyDeleteOur thinking seems to be very similar on this topic Jenny.
DeleteOh yes, it reminds one again and again the repetitive ritual and why one comes to leave the church. 6 times to church so you can get married in a special building?
ReplyDeleteThe idea of the "parish" is still very strong. If you live in the parish - no problemo - you can book the church. But if you live outside the parish you have to qualify.
DeleteI also dislike the "say hello" segment. I usually just try to ignore it.
ReplyDeleteIt's a spectacular church and will make for a very dignified wedding venue
My name has morphed due to phone blogging and not wearing glasses
DeleteWho is Kylier? Kylie Minogue or Kylie Eclectica?
DeleteIf kylie of eclectic could be confused with Ms Minogue, I'll consider that I have made it!
ReplyDeleteWhaddya mean? Minogue's intellectual ability is dwarfish when compared with Madam Eclectica!
DeleteAs children my late brother and I attended Sunday School every Sunday (of course) mornings.
ReplyDeleteI forget how old we were when we ceased attending, but after we stopped going to Sunday School...we didn't replace it with attending church each Sunday.
Aged 16, shortly after I started working I thought I'd give going to church a go...tried it one time....and that was it for me. Enough was enough, already!!
God was already aware of your long list of sins. He is apparently good at forgiving sins - but not that many!
DeleteI doubt at around the age of 11 or 12 years I'd committed any sins, Yorkie...but I had been sinned against.
DeleteYou already know that I love old churches, one of my favourite being (surprise, surprise!) Ripon Cathedral, with Ulm Minster coming a close second.
ReplyDeleteThe atmosphere of almost tangible history is best felt, though, in the small-ish village churches, I think.
I agree with that. Small country churches have evolved over centuries. They were never entirely planned and this adds greatly to their charm.
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