Following a passing remark that someone made about me last week on another blog, I was going to write about pigeonholing people. In fact I had begun to write the blogpost when somewhere - in the back of my mind - a vague memory stirred. Hadn't I blogged about pigeonholing before?
Using the blog search facility in the top left hand corner of "Yorkshire Pudding", I soon discovered that I had written quite effectively about this human tendency back in July 2015. Why re-invent the wheel? For once, I have decided to re-blog. So here's that original "Pigeonholing" blogpost - verbatim:-
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"What do you do?"
This is a question that often surfaces soon after being introduced to new people - at parties and other social events. But for years it is a question that I have deliberately refrained from asking. I am of the opinion that knowing what somebody does for a living is not of prime importance. I don't wish to define my fellow human beings by the jobs they do.
It may be unintentional but asking the question, "What do you do?" is surely a way of pigeonholing people. If they reply, "I'm a butcher" or "I'm in insurance" or "I'm a surgeon", the cogs in the questioner's brain will whirl instantly as presumptions are silently logged. Presumptions about income and education. That kind of thing. And the questioner will be subconsciously rank ordering - assessing your position in the vocational pecking order.
If somebody asks me "What do you do?", I am often deliberately obtuse. "Oh I like walking and photography - that kind of thing and I am quite keen on cookery. Do you like cooking yourself?" I have also been known to respond, "Why? What do you want to know that for?" which can induce dropped jaws and awkward silences.
For most of us, work is something we do to make money that pays the bills. We can't all be Pablo Picassos or Saul Bellows and what the vast majority of us end up doing is usually an accident of upbringing and circumstance. It shouldn't define us.
I used to rage inside when I heard people making sweeping generalisations about teachers and usually felt like yelling back, "But that's not me!" I was always more than that person at the front of a classroom, teaching lessons and marking books. This was only what I did for a living. It wasn't me.
In my philosophy, road sweepers are equal to magistrates, captains of industry are equal to the cleaners who vacuum their offices and celebrities are no better than the unknown.
Of course, in the passage of time, information about what somebody does for a living will emerge naturally. It's knowledge you can pursue or not but I will never be the first to ask, "What do you do?"
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Incidentally, for anyone who tries to diminish or stereotype me again - as just "a teacher", I should point out that I have also worked as an operative on a turkey farm, a clerk in a Butlin's holiday camp, a night-watchman at a caravan factory, a factory worker at an agricultural chemicals business, a technician in an amusement arcade, a camp counsellor, a poll clerk in a polling station, an examiner, a fruit picker, a singer in a rock band and a shop worker. But none of this really matters because making assumptions about people on the basis of what they do or did for a living is in the same vein of ignorance as racial stereotyping.
I remember, as a young woman, going on a dinner date with a fellow who immediately seemed to want narrow down exactly who (he thought) I was. Perhaps it was the engineer in him (see! typecasting!), but as the evening wore on his compartmentalizing began to infuriate me. If I made a comment on something, he would immediately say I was 'this' kind of person, or if I provided a different viewpoint on another subject, then I was 'that' kind of person. Finally, I just started switching up viewpoints right and left--many of them not actually held by me--just to confuse (and annoy) him. It worked. Let's just say there wasn't a second date. :)
ReplyDeleteHe should have just recognised that you were simply Mary and you did not require that kind of analysing.
DeleteThe thing I find interesting in this post is your use of the term 'just' a teacher. I always thought - and still do think - that teaching is noble profession.
ReplyDeleteWe are, nearly all of us, so much more than our work - for some it defines them and gives meaning in life - for most it is a means to an end, but that too does not mean we work without purpose, pride or commitment; I am sure you did that too as a teacher.
We can of course be pigeonholed for other things too: our race, our home town! (Geordies and Mackhams, scousers... etc ), our sexuality, our taste in music... We seem always to want to categorise and order more neatly than is the case in reality.
Here's to ploughing our own furrows.
I am glad that this post gave you some food for thought Mark.
DeleteRoad Sweepers equal to Magistrates?
ReplyDeleteBegob, thou art a Bolshevik, Sir !
Next, ye shall be telling us that all bloggers are equal.
Yea, even those who haggertise and taskerise, bigger bores I never read.
Let us all enjoy a Yorky Moment and a Meike Moment.
A ramble in some leafy nook, a hike over some windswept moor.
A Tennysonian idyll, for those of us confined, alas, in Tier 3.
No more Garrulous Bores, disporting their bogus erudition, Sir.
Above all, no more blasted Socialism !
Yours etc.
Colonel Hamel(d)
Tunbridge Wells
P.S. Good to see Boris sanctifying his carnal union.
One does hope little Wilfrid will not grow up to be a Serial Shagger, like Dad.
As Kipling said, a woman is only a woman, but a good cigar is a smoke.
Time to clip your privet Colonel Hamel(d) or your Kentish neighbours in Royal Tunbridge Wells will be doing more than writing snooty letters!
DeleteI know for some it's truly just a question of curiosity or perhaps an opening for a conversation on common ground. But I agree that it really makes no difference what one does. Unfortunately there are many who do pigeonhole others by their answer. My husband often uses one of two answers: "I'm a paramutual investor" or "whatever I want to do".
ReplyDelete"Whatever I want to do"? If only Kelly!
DeleteI'll never forget the first time I met a doctor friend of Gregg's, an Indian man. The first thing he asked me was what my father did for a living! I was a 31 year old woman. How's that for pigeonholing someone? Talk about sexist!
ReplyDeleteI should probably add that he's a very kind and empathetic man, and the question was the result of his background in India as a man from a wealthy family. His marriage was arranged so I'm not surprised that he thought that way. He also saved Gregg's life later on so I'll never hold something so minor against him. But it was a shock at the time.
A lot of clever people lack emotional intelligence.
DeleteWhen people used to ask me that question I always replied "I work in a licorice allsort factory, putting the blue and pink bobbles on the aniseed jellies."
ReplyDeleteYou must have had very small tweezers Sue!
DeleteDoesn't seem to happen as must when you are retired, but like you I used to be deliberately vague.
ReplyDeleteA camp counsellor! That's interesting. Were you good at it?
I was good at it but I wasn't camp!
DeleteFor some reason I've never minded answering that question, even when the answer was "stay at home mother". I do feel that my current job (which I've held since 2000) is an essential part of me, and I don't mind that either. I think whether we are bothered or not may come down to our personality as much as anything else. Not trying to be obstreperous or anything. Just a different point of view. Do you have any suggestions about what other first-meeting ice-breaker questions would be widely accepted instead? Please don't say sports, because that one WOULD bother me. lol
ReplyDeleteHow about... Have you travelled far? or Have you been here before? or Nice to meet you - my name's Jenny, what's yours? (By the way, my name is not Jenny!)
DeleteSomething I know all too well and learned the hard way. I used to answer "Engineer" to that question which sometimes made the conversation shift to a different topic or occasionally it delved into the specifics of what I did. But when I made the choice to quit work altogether and let my spouse focus on her career while I took care of the kids and fixed up a house in-between, things really got awkward answering the question. People didn't know how to deal with a stay at home dad. After period of trying various answers, I have settled on two, depending on the company. I am now a "Trophy Husband" or a "Childhood Behavioral Psychologist".
ReplyDeleteI guess that people are more likely to harbour prejudices about teachers than engineers. The term "engineer" is broad and a little mysterious to the rest of us. I like your later answers.
DeleteI always felt uncomfortable when asked that question as I felt that my ordinariness made me a smaller person in their eyes. Especially when their eyes glazed over and they searched for someone more important to talk to.
ReplyDeleteClearly you understand what I am getting at JayCee.
DeleteYou'd go crazy in New York. That's the first question anybody asks anybody else! In their defense, though, I think they're often just looking for common ground to start a conversation. I rarely felt any sort of judgement from it.
ReplyDeleteTeachers are I think singled out for presumptions because everybody has clear memories of their own teachers and they feel entitled to make judgements. I have known this countless times.
DeleteBeing happy is the most important thing. I remember when a teacher told me that my eldest son would not go far if he didn't pull his socks up. I answered that I wasn't bothered what he did when he left school, he could be a binman for all I cared as long as he was happy. He ended up as an air traffic controller so she was completely wrong.
ReplyDeleteMy other son is a theatre nurse and tells us that most of the consultants hate the job they do but are now committed after so much studying and of course earning a big wage.
Sadly it is a fact thought that people do judge you for what you have etc. We have rented this maisonette since 1965 but often people assume it is our property, their faces seem to change when they find out that we are mere renters.
In the end if people can't accept you for what you are then they are not worth giving the time of day.
Briony
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This is a thoughtful, wise response and I thank you for it Briony.
DeleteThe worst odor I have ever smelled in my 80 years of living was a turkey farm in Texas between the towns of Grapevine and Coppell. I trust you have rid yourself of the stench by this time.
ReplyDeleteI learned an important lesson several decades ago when, in casual conversation with our department secretary, Marlene, I referred to the crew who cleaned our offices at night as “the menial people”. She exploded (figuratively speaking) and let me know in no uncertain terms that there may be menial tasks, but there are no menial people. Your post today reminded me of what I learned that day, and how I learned it. Not all teaching is done in schools.
That is a great story Bob. Thanks for sharing it. I hope that Marlene taught some other people the same lesson. Your last remark is very true.
DeleteOne might say that you've had a very chequered career YP, or some might even venture to ask if you couldn't keep a job!
ReplyDeleteOff hand I can't recall anyone asking me what I did, though I'm sure they must have done, so I expect I made some flippant reply. I've been retired too long for people to be even remotely interested these days. But should they ask I think I'd like to use the phrase "If I tell you, I'll have to kill you" - it's such a conversation stopper!
Really does it matter what a person does or did? It depends if I like a person or not, their profession is/was, totally irrelevant.
Ha-ha! I like that response..."If I tell you, I'll have to kill you!" I must remember that one.
DeleteI too have done many things in my life to earn money or a living, but am not that person. They were my jobs, not who I was. Teaching was the closest which is probably why I loved it so much.
ReplyDeleteNot sure what you mean by "the closest" Margaret.
DeleteI mean that I could (mostly) be myself as a teacher, versus the worker drone I was in the processing plants where I earned summer money.
DeleteYep. I heard an interview on a podcast yesterday with a transwoman who was basically talking about pigeon-holing whether it's by asking where someone's from or what they do or what their genders are. It's true. We are all very multi-faceted. Hopefully, at least. Although it's so easy to stereotype in some cases. A teacher would, hopefully, be interested in the subject they teach. I like what Bike Shed had to say. I think we humans do look for shortcuts to try and define what or who someone is by asking these questions and making assumptions.
ReplyDeleteBut why leap in straight away with the job enquiry? It's a bit rude in my opinion. Save it till later.
DeleteI don't know if you've seen this video or not but I think teachers are amazing people because they show up everyday and they make a difference. A good teacher is worth their weight in gold I think.
ReplyDeletehttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xuFnP5N2uA
I always ask patients what they do for a living because I find people and their jobs interesting. I've learned so much about the world from my patients. The most interesting job was a chuck wagon driver.
Of course, we all always get round to knowing what people "do" or "did" but in normal discourse we do not need to get round to knowing that till later on. Thanks for the video suggestion. I will watch that later.
DeleteIt is human nature to want to pigeon hole people. We want to understand. I never ask people what they do as they then might ask me what I do. My reply used to be, nothing important really. Now retired, I can just say, nothing.
ReplyDeleteYes. We want to understand other people but why should almost the first question be about money earning?
DeletePlacement in society I guess. As you said, we are ranked by our job.
DeleteIt does bug me when I stranger I'm talking to asks very casually what I do.
ReplyDeleteI know what you do Red. You live!
DeleteShe's mentally ill, YP. You really mustn't let her bother you so.
ReplyDeleteGood perception Debby.
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